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Forums » Other TV Shows » Game of Thrones: Season 7: Beyond the Wall

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  • Aaronic
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    40 Posts

    Game of Thrones: Season 7: Beyond the Wall Link to this post

    Well this was bad. Nothing in this episode worked for me and it just served as confirmation that this show is on a downward spiral as it heads towards its conclusion. This episode had the same impact on me that The Walking Dead's "Last Day on Earth" had: it really hurt my optimism for what's to come and served to only showcase the worst habits of the show while ignoring all the best components. I give this a 38 out of 100. Not a fan of this at all.

    There were a few odd things that I enjoyed but they were all tied to things I didn't like. I enjoyed the continued progression of Jon and Dany's relationship but it does feel a little bit rushed to bring them so close after just a couple episodes. I liked most of the conversations between the 7, but they were mostly just filler and served little purpose. The Hound is still hilarious though and is the best part of this episode by far. I loved his conversation with Tormund and I laughed a lot when he threw a snowball at the wight and just said "dumb c***", even though I had my problems with that (more on that later).

    That was everything I enjoyed. All the other scenes did not impress me at all. First things first though, I didn't like how much content was stuffed into this episode. Not only did a lot of it get rushed but it also leaves me with a truckload of things to discuss that I didn't like. I will put everything down in a list that way it's easier to follow all of the major issues I had.

    -Whatever happened to the focus on travelling and the time it takes. Gendry becomes an Olympic runner for this episode and races back to Eastwatch, sends a supersonic raven to Dany who uses thrusters on her dragons to reach the position in the North. And the undead army apparently just sat there watching Jon's group for that time.

    -If Dany was going to go for the rescue anyways, why didn't she go for the wight extraction mission anyways? Surely it would be easier to capture a single wight if you have a dragon or 3 on your side. Or better yet just don't go with this idiotic plan anyways.

    -Dany travelled super fast to the wall. Why didn't anyone just suggest her riding a dragon to see the army so she see that its real? It's not like she's defending a fortress or anything and apparently she can travel the world in seconds on her dragons.

    -What the hell did Gendry say to Dany in the message that led her directly to Jon's group? Surely she would have been looking for hours to find their actual location.

    -Thoros' death was poorly done. We didn't care about him and his death just meant absolutely nothing when it happened and then wasn't even played out for emotional resonance. What a waste of a death.

    -This show used to have unpredictable deaths and such but there have been none in a while. All the main characters have received plot armour and the same level of threat just isn't there anymore. I felt no tension or worry that anybody I care about would die in this episode.

    -The polar bear attack was poor. The characters' similar clothing and the blizzard setting made it impossible to tell if somebody important was being attacked or if it was just some wildlinf which took away from the tension.

    -The frozen lake battle was terrible. It wasn't even all that visually impressive and is easily overshadowed by the loot train attack from The Spoils of War.

    -The battle staging was awkward. The wights were nowhere near as vicious as they were in Hardhome and it didn't feel right to have just 7 people hold them off of the rock for so long. It was obviously set up to have Dany swoop in at the last minute as well which took away all tension.

    -It was ridiculous that there was a perfect circular hole in the ice around the rock to save Jon's crew. And then apparently they just sat on that rock for forever while everybody travelled around. and apparently the Night King let this happen even though he can clearly just summon a javelin and kill them all at any time.

    -Why was the Night King so slow to attack the Dragons? If he didn't have to be so dramatic he could have easily killed all of them. Also why attack the moving dragon and not the sitting dragon who would be a much easier target? This makes it all the more unbelievable that he would miss Drogon during the group's escape. Attacking the sitting Drogon would also leave all the others vulnerable to the wights.

    -The episode didn't care enough to even identify which dragon died. It wasn't until I read online that I realized Viserion was killed.

    -Why did the Hound throw snowballs at the wights? Was he trying to provoke them to attack? Also Gendry's hammer could break the ice. Why not make another circle of broken ice so that the wights can't cross? It's obvious that the ice would reform in the cold, so take measures to prevent the wight army from being able to go over it. Plus doing that would be much more productive than doing nothing.

    -Why did The Hound leave the Brotherhood? Wasn't his purpose to go past The Wall? I guess this is just going to be a sloppy way to have The Hound meet The Mountain when they talk with Cersei.

    -Cersei has done nothing in all this time. Surely something should have gone down while this entire mission occurred. Logically this mission should have taken at least a month so are we supposed to believe that Cersei has just done nothing in that time

    -Tyrion has lost all purpose as a character since season 5. He has done nothing this season and seems to just exist. All he did this week was act all smart to Dany who didn't even bother listening to what he said. All of Tyrion's charm just doesn't exist anymore.

    -Apparently the wights have intelligence now as they figured out that they could walk over the ice after the Hound threw the rock.

    -Jon was pulled underwater by wights and the scene cuts away. We cut back and Jon is magically alive without us seeing how he escaped. Stupid.

    -The wights seemed to die in the water but then we saw some scenes with swimming wights. I don't even know what to think about them anymore.

    -Where did those chains come from that were used to lift the dragon? How did the wights get them on if they can't go in water? This entire wight vs water thing is ridiculously inconsistent and sloppy.

    -Why would Jon decide to randomly fight wights instead of getting on the dragon. Why would he fight? The entire point of the mission was to grab a wight and leave so why fight and endanger not only the mission, but the life of another dragon!

    -Why didn't The Dragons attack the Night King? The whole conflict could have ended there.

    -How implausible is it that there is a White Walker scout team? There is an army going through a wasteland with no civilization in it, what the hell would they be scouting? It only seems to exist to let the heroes capture a wight easily. Also why did that one wight conveniently not die along with the others after the White Walker was killed.

    -Benjen was a plot device to help Jon escape a situation he never should have been dumb enough to get himself involved in. Fantastic. How did he even get there so fast? Why couldn't he hop on the horse with Jon? Because he was a dues ex machine, nothing more.

    -I don't care to watch Sansa and Arya fight. Both women seem to lack basic communication skills to clear up this misunderstanding and Arya is as unsympathetic and unlikeable as she could possibly be. The only satisfying end to this awful storyline is if this is all a plan to trick Littlefinger to kill him.

  • Fluids
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    303 Posts

    Re: Game of Thrones: Season 7: Beyond the Wall Link to this post

    I loved your points Aaronic. Especially about the Night King's dragon attack. Why not attack Dany and Drogon? They were much closer and stationary. I had not thought about what Gendry told Ser Davos that got ravened to Dany. I agree the extraction could have been done just with Dany (maybe with Jon, Ser Jorah and Gendry on Drogon's back). They would have saved a lot of walking/useless banter time and could have still had the Night King spear Viserion and they still could have escaped with a Wight and served it up to Cersei in the same episode.

    Not only do the Wights have intelligence, they employ the same tropic attack patterns as crowds of bad guys in Chinese martial arts movies and attack the hero a few at a time instead of all at once.

    Here's mine:

    The overall energy of this episode I felt was very uneven.

    I gave this a 50 out of 100 on Robin's scale. I didn’t like chunks of dialogue.

    The Lake Wight battle scene was incredible for me and kept my score from going down further. Perhaps it's because I have been waiting so long (7 years) to see something happen between the two of them. The special effects were absolutely stunning.

    I thought again, most of the scenes were set up. The dialogue felt like filler dialog to get us to the battle of the Dragons and White Walkers. The last two scenes I thought encompassed the best emotional scene and worst plot wise elements scene of the show. (SEE: The Good and The Bad.)

    What I was given left me with a ton of questions and also sets several pieces of the story off in certain directions or trajectories (SEE: The Unknown)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Summary:

    * The table in Dany’s war chambers foreshadows the dragon fire north of the Wall later in the episode.

    * The Magnificent 7 head deep North of the Wall.

    * John tries to give Longclaw to Ser Jorah and he refuses. That was touching.

    * Arya talks to Sansa about shooting arrows and being supported by Ser Rodrick and how he was killed with her help. She shows Sansa the note Cersei forced her to write and accuses her conspiring withe Lannisters. Arya mentions how she watched Sansa watch their father be assassinated by Joffrey. Arya stating she guess she will never know what Sansa suffered may imply a direction for Arya. She says she will go with anger. (See: The Unknown)

    * Back at the North, Tormund and the Hound have a discussion about his childhood and Brienne; very funny!

    * Jon talks to Beric about their mutual resurrections. They have to know what they are fighting for; not why they were brought back. The shields that guard the realms of men. He said Jon doesn’t look like his father (right about that eh?)

    * The Hound sees the mountain from his visions.

    * Tyrion talks to Dany. She likes that he’s not a hero because those tend to die of stupid things whilst trying to out do each other. He tests her impulsiveness and if she is reactionary and how smitten she is with Jon. He tells her that she has to take her enemies side to know how they think. She listens. He wants to know who sits on the Iron Throne after she is dead. She criticizes his thoughts and asks he focus on the present.

    * Back at the North the seven run into a Wight Polar bear kills a few red shirts and mortally wounds Thoros of Myr in the belly. Beric cauterizes his wounds and they move onward towards the arrowhead mountain.

    * Baelish finds out Sansa doesn’t know where the note Arya has came from him (See: The Unknown). She confides to Baelish she’s worried the North will turn on her and she doesn’t know Arya anymore and he tries to turn Sansa on Arya using Brienne take out Arya.

    * In the North, Ser Jorah asks Thoros how drunk Thoros was at Pyke with his flaming sword and thought he was brave back then and Thoros confides he was just drunk.

    * Tormund finds a row of wights marching behind a White Walker and they bait the row with a fire. A fight ensues. The White Walker gets killed by Jon and most of the Wights die except one. They capture this one and the Hound slings it over his back. In the distance they see a flood of Wights coming. Jon sends Gendry back to Eastwatch to send a raven to Dany for help. The group runs to a frozen lake for cover and spot a rock island in the middle and they make a break for it. The Wights try to pursue, however the ice breaks and stops them from coming.

    * Gendry keeps running for Eastwatch.

    * The group slowly freezes to death on the island surrounded by the Wights.

    * Gendry collapses in front of the tunnel door and Ser Jorah brings him in and sends word to Dany through Raven.

    * Thoros succumbs to his wounds and they have to burn his body.

    * Ser Jorah reasons they go for the Walkers for them to stand a chance. Beric reasons the Night King’s death will kill them all.

    * Sansa gets a raven that provides an invitation to King’s Landing which Sansa burns and sends Brienne.

    * Dany sets off for the North and Tyrion tries to stop her by telling her if she dies they all are lost.

    * Back up North the Wights cross the lake one at a time and attack the island. The group shrinks down to Jon, Ser Jorah, Tormund, the Hound and Beric.

    * Dany arrives with the Dragons and scorched earth policy is initiated.

    * The Night King hurdles an ice spear at Viserion and it falls dead under the ice into the lake.

    * Dany flies out with Ser Jorah, Beric, the Hound and Tormund. The hound saves Ser Jorah from falling off.

    * Jon stays to fight the Night king and falls into the water and pulls himself out.

    * Benjen reunites with Jon and gives him his horse to escape.

    * The Hound drops off the wight at Eastwatch.

    * Dany waits for Jon to return and he does barely alive.

    * Sansa goes to Arya’s quarters to find the raven message and finds the faces of Walder Frey and one other. Arya gets dark with wanting to kill Sansa and then walks off. Kind of creepy.

    * Jon wakes up to Dany. I think they are truly in love. She pulls back on her feelings once he bends the knee to her.

    * Chains drawn by white walkers bring up Viserion and the Knight King creates a White Dragon!!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Best lines:

    Tormund: ‘I want to make great big babies with her. Think of them; great big monsters they’d conquer the world’. The Hound: ‘How did a mad F^&*&^ like you survive in the world for this long?’

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Good:

    * Nice sweeping long shots of the men walking.

    * Great banter (Tormund messing with Gendry); between the Hound and Tormund and Beric and Jon; especially about Death being the enemy and defending those who cannot defend themselves.

    * I loved the music at the Wight Lake battle and the scene where the Night King hurdles the ice spear at one of the dragons was fantastic. I loved all the special effects and visual effects.

    * The final scene between Jon and Dany where he bends the knee did have a lot of emotion and I really thought the actors did a terrific job of capturing empathy for the loss of the Dragon and a mutual deep determination to eliminate the Night King.

    * A White Dragon is a fantastic idea. I just don’t like how it was originated. (SEE: The Bad and the Unknown).

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Bad:

    * A lot of walking and banter while walking; reminding me of the Lord of Rings in that capacity.

    * Does Dany really believe deceit and Mass Murder win wars?

    * Beric made more sense on strategy then Jon to defeat the Night King. How are they going to get out of there opting for capturing one wight over slaying the Night King totally surrounded by thousands of the dead powered by the Night King?

    * Little Finger thanked the Maester for bringing Sansa the note she requested. Sansa asked her where Arya got that note. Why didn’t Arya pick up on that Sansa asked her where she got the note? If Sansa was responsible she would know where that note came from right?

    * Since when do the Wights exhibit such intelligence? They watch a rock slide across the ice and then conclude that the water is just frozen enough to support the weight of each of them attacking one at a time?

    * There is some bad continuity with how close the Wights were surrounding Jon and company at the lake. At first they were fairly close and as Jon’s party slowly freezes they appeared to be further off.

    * I really had a lot of issues with the four very long iron (or ice) linked chains the White Walkers were using and hauling the dragon out of water with them. How were those chains crafted? Let’s suppose the White Walkers have the skill and number of foundries necessary to forge the iron (or ice) chain links required to make those chains quickly. It’s been shown fairly consistently at Hardhomme and in this very episode that Wights and White Walkers do not fair well in water so how did either of them get the chains wrapped around the dragon’s neck? We literally see Wights sink into the water once they fall in. If Wights or White Walkers can swim, why don’t they just swim around the end of the wall in the Narrow Sea? All they had to do was have Viserion’s body skid across the frozen lake to the shore and then have the Night King resurrect his body later. I guess they wanted to surprise us with what they were pulling up from the bottom of the water. Story sense works more for me than surprise; especially in this case.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Unknown:

    * Why didn’t Arya tell Sansa she got the note from Little Finger when Sansa asked her where she got it? If she did, Sansa would know not to trust Little Finger.

    * Will Arya leave Winterfell to finish Cersei off herself or will she try and eliminate Sansa? What was the point in menacing Sansa?

    * Did Cersei really send the raven for Sansa to go to King’s Landing or was it Littlefinger?

    * How does Beric always light his sword? His blood? What doesn’t Beric understand about killing the Night King?

    * How do the wights know that a stone skittering across the ice makes the ice worth walking on?

    * Can a Wight Dragon be used to break down the wall? Does it breath ice instead of fire?

    * Where is the Hound off to now? Technically although he helped get the Wight he hasn’t bent the knee to anyone. If he helps bring the Wight to King’s Landing he will see his brother with Cersei. Is Cleghane bowl still possible?

    * What’s stopping the Night King from just getting on Wight Viserion and flying over the Wall with several white walkers on it’s back? He could literally just pick up and drop them off a few at a time. They can start killing Westerosi and converting them to an army.

    * Will Jon bending the knee with Dany send the Northerners over to side with Sansa over Jon because they won’t side with a Targaryen and Arya will be forced to flee Winterfell looking for on? The only thing that would keep them inline would be the reveal that Jon is a true Targaryen right? Possibly through combination of Gilly’s annulment notes about Rhaegar’s marriage and marriage to Leanna in Dorne and Bran’s Green sight?

    * What will Dany think once she sees the White form of Viserion? Will she have trouble killing it? Kind of like in the Walking Dead how at first the characters in the Walking Dead had a hard time killing the zombified remains of their friends and loved ones?

    Can Bran warg into White Viserion to gain control of him? Doubtful. If he could, then he or the three eyed Raven could have stopped the Wight army from invading the three eyed Raven’s lair.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Game of Thrones Threads at the TV Critic:
    http://www.thetvcritic.org/forums/other-tv-shows/show/180
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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