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Forums » Other TV Shows » The Walking Dead Season 6 Episode 13: The Same Boat

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  • Ben
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    The Walking Dead Season 6 Episode 13: The Same Boat Link to this post

    On paper, this episode should be a winner. Maggie and Carol taken hostage by the Negan Collective, Rick tries to broker a deal, Negan reinforcements on the way, can Maggie and Carol escape in time?

    The episode began on an interesting note, showing us the last 2 minutes of the previous episode from the other end of the walkie-talkie.

    However, the longer everyone stayed in the compound’s room, not only did the urgency and tension drop, but the more obvious it became that the 4 baddies were goners, and Maggie and Carol would escape unharmed.

    Now that isn’t the worse thing in the world, we already can expect our “heroes” to survive and beat the “bad guys”. I’m not against bottle episodes because they can allow further development of the characters in focus. BUT, does anyone actually think we got to understand Carol and Maggie any better?

    First off with Maggie; this seems like a great time to focus on her, she is just starting her new role as Alexandria’s leader, soon to become a mom, and is with Glenn who is not dead. Lots of angles you can play at, but instead we get 1 scene with her with the woman (who got enough camera shots to lead me to believe she took some sympathy with a pregnant woman, that maybe she’d “help” out Maggie and Carol in some way) with nothing but her refusal to give out details of Alexandria (which is ultimately a moot point anyways, since the 4 NC’s (Negan collectives) all died). So yeah, clearly the focus was never meant to be on Maggie.

    So onto to Carol, who basically spends the whole episode crying and hyperventiliating, all of which was apparently NOT AN ACT???? Now we all knew she would use the cross to break her binds, but I assumed she was feigning weakness, like her initial persona at Alexandria, until the time to strike was right. But instead, are we supposed to believe she is scared of dying, is against killing, and also regrets not killing? This all (unless I missed something) came out of nowhere, and felt completely at odds with her development the last few seasons. Not to mention, no attempt at tying her inner conflict into her interactions with Morgan which I could MAYBE buy as a reason for her personal struggles.

    I could have bought Carol’s “weakening” being as a result of worry for Maggie/baby, but the focus was never there, and I wasn’t even sure if Maggie got cut in the stomach or if just her shirt was ripped.

    So yeah, not a great episode for developing 2 long running members of the cast, instead we get a bunch of screen-time for one-off NC’ers who of course die the same episode they are introduced, it would have been passable if at least one of them had been someone we knew from an earlier episode (like the biker who survived the RPG, or Darryl’s bike thieves).

    Do we really need to spend a whole episode with 4 new characters, when the cast is already too big?

    The gradual expansion of Negan, including the idea that he is a “collective of people” instead of a singular person (which is a interesting idea, even though Rick/Carol/Maggie didn’t seem to pick up on it), even if only as a distraction from the truth that he is a singular person. But again, everything has been too easy for the protagonists, and it just feels like we are waiting until something of actual consequence happens.

    This episode tried to be a bottle episode when it should have just been a continuation of the story from last week, if they weren’t gonna give us a clear focus on Maggie and Carol.

    Fingers crossed that Fluids sees where I’m coming from.

    Score: 40

  • Fluids
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    Re: The Walking Dead Season 6 Episode 13: The Same Boat Link to this post

    The Walking Dead Season 6: Episode 13: The Same Boat

    I gave this episode a 35.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Thoughts:

    * I hated this episode. The overall feeling left me with thinking this was filler or a stall for a bigger encounter. It was very good guy versus bad guy in terms of it's dimensions and dynamics and rehashing things we already know.

    Great points you have made Ben. As you say, we have added nothing to Carol or Maggie's characters.

    We already know Carol is a bad-ass and Maggie can be as well. We also know Carol does struggle with what she had to do with Lizzie and killing others. We already know Maggie and Glenn have defiantly (to the environment) made a choice to have a child.

    I agree that getting back-story on these Saviors really doesn't add anything emotional to the episode.

    I didn't care about the smoker with lung cancer.
    I didn't care about the lead Savior with four kids stuck with her boss at the outbreak.
    I didn't care about the gunshot victim who turned.
    I didn't care about the savior interrogating Maggie who went out to get the remains of her boyfriend.
    I didn't care about the two kill floor incinerated saviors.

    Are these characters supposed to bond or anti bond? Who cares... The Saviors have already shown themselves to be ruthlessly violent and care for only themselves and state if anyone else were in their position they would act the same. Yet, they refrain from smoking in front of pregnant woman and interrogate her civilly after they are kicked out of their homes and violently attacked? Sure...Okay...

    The Saviors nature and behavior have already been established throughout the Season with their interactions with Daryl, Sasha and Abraham. Why was anything further necessary (unless its intention is to give us more information which it really didn't? Later on I elaborate on what was provided.) Is this suppose to give us their softer side?

    Carol's hyperventilating wasn't clear whether it was a ruse or if it's real. If it's real it doesn't make any sense given how cold, manipulative and calculating Carol has been at the prison and at Alexandria.

    We did see her with her diary counting the bodies of the living she has killed; 18 in total back in S6E12 trying to cope with what she has done. If what we saw in S6E13 was because she has finally broken down (killing humans), then I think we needed to see her deteriorate more in the diary scene in S6E12. Instead she goes out and gets laid.

    If her overall behavior was a ruse then that made more sense, however it's confusing because it did seem like she was affected in someway when she was holding a gun to the main Savior before pushing her into the walkers.

    A few minutes later she is crying lighting a cigarette to ignite the gas on the kill floor that incinerated two saviors. Huh?? So is Carol her normal coldness and she just had a moment where she just lost it? I guess...

    So what are we left with (since nothing contributed to any of the characters)?

    * Irony (supposed) about Rick's understanding of what or who is Negan and what are the Saviors?

    It was clearly conveyed to us viewers that Saviors refer to themselves as *Negan* a collective. There is one point I diverge from your opinion regarding Carol's thoughts on this though Ben. I think she does realize that Negan is a collective (albeit after Rick shoots the remaining Savior) because he thinks that guy is Negan, however it's too late. Perhaps she wanted to keep him alive so they could torture him to get intelligence on other Savior sites?

    To add to your points I think there is a person named Negan and there are other groups or locations for the Saviors. There was a point when the remaining saviors were taking a hooded Carol and Maggie to a safe haven and had radio contact with another group of saviors who were going to meet them. Those Saviors were coming from *somewhere else* so it's clear to me the Saviors have at least one other location. They may consider themselves a collective called Negan, however why aren't they calling themselves Negan instead of the Saviors? I think it's because under Negan's leadership they consider themselves a collective, however they call themselves the Saviors.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    The Good:

    The only thing good I saw in this episode was the walkie talkie conversation between the Saviors. That told me there is more of them, so this isn't over. We get a little bit of irony there after Rick blows away who he thinks is Negan.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    The Bad:

    SEE Thoughts. The Savior back-story dialog felt like filler to me. The whole episode felt like filler to me.
    My concern for Maggie and Carol dropped about 30 minutes in when they started the back-stories because it became clear who was going to die. There is a clear Trope on Walking Dead that holds up Season after Season. Those given a lot of dialog in an episode (especially when they never have before) usually get killed off, so it was clear when they dialog came from the Saviors who that would be. I was actually bored. What also didn't help was when Carol warned the leader if she didn't work things out she would end up being dead. The leader doesn't do anything to Carol when she asked Carol if she was the one who was going to kill her and Carol says 'hope not.'

    When Maggie was getting interrogated she wasn't coerced to talk in anyway and she didn't say anything worth noting. I kept thinking about the Monty Python skit 'the Comfy Chair'. Instead the interrogator allows Maggie to question her and she becomes introspective and started talking about her own life. Huh? Is it that these people are just the weakest of Negan's and are *better* people then Carol and Maggie? Or as Molls' says 'Dead men Walking'? I don't care enough about them to apply that to Maggie or Carol.

    I would imagine Jesus knows who Negan is because he killed Rory at the Hilltop, so why isn't he telling Rick that the man he blew away with his Colt Python isn't Negan; they (the Saviors) consider themselves Negan??

    Rick's dialog during the negotiations was a little weak. It could have been better.

    I think the attempt in this episode was to show how Maggie is chosing to have a child in this world where most people feel this is stupid she doesn't.
    Is the very nature of her and Glen making a choice to have child embody that notion? How does defiantly voicing that same choice 16 minutes into the episode to a captor make that notion any stronger?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Other Unknowns:

    Where is Negan and the remaining Saviors? Two of them were dispatched to the Kill Floor of the safe haven to rescue their comrades holding Maggie and Carol.

    Will they exact revenge on Rick and Company?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    http://www.thetvcritic.org/forums/other-tv-shows/show/173
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  • Ben
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    Re: The Walking Dead Season 6 Episode 13: The Same Boat Link to this post

    I'm glad to see we are on the same page, or should I say the same boat?

    Lots of reviews online loved this episode, but if you ask me the "Flight 462 minisode" was more exciting.

  • Fluids
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    Re: The Walking Dead Season 6 Episode 13: The Same Boat Link to this post

    Yes, the Flight 462 minisode was way more entertaining and it was just the right length.

    S6E13 could have conveyed its points in 5-10 minutes.

    They could have gone back and forth between Rick's side and the Saviors side to keep up tension or show us what the heck Morgan is building. I think its a jail cell (which he probably got from his mentor.) The funny thought about that is Rick said no one would be left alive. So why do they need a jail cell right? If it is a jail cell, I guess it's Morgan's way protesting or at least encouraging future interactions to be made more civilly.

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